It has been a while since I have done a ranty post…
My Dear Fellow Pagans & Magical Practitioners,
I don’t know if it is just me, but I have been noticing a big increase in people selling products containing entheogens that are being marketed towards witchy folks. This bothers me and it scares the shit out of me at the same time.
Before I go into why, let me preface by saying this:
I am not someone who “walks the poisoners’ path”. While a good part of my practice involves working with plants {and it might be even fair to say that it is “in my blood”}, my experience working with psychoactive plants is limited. I was lucky enough to shadow someone for a short time who has a rich knowledge and experience working with these types of plants, but I learned quite quickly that it was not for me. Any concoctions I made {such as flying ointment} has been for my own personal use.
Many poison plants have found a place in my garden and in my apothecary; my relationship with them is just different from proper hedge witches or other practitioners who work with entheogenic plants for altered states.
Anyways, I am not bothered that people work with these plants in this way or that they are selling products containing them. There are a small handful of people who I have been a customer of and a “fan” of their work who sell them. To me it is quite clear that they have experience and that they have an idea of what they are doing.
My issue lays with inexperienced people who are making these products and selling them to others. Noobies trying to be “badass witches” by selling this stuff is not just annoying, it is fucked up and reckless.
Case in point:
There is a person on Youtube who has an online store that has started to sell items containing these kinds of plants. In a video while bragging that she is going to be selling flying ointments, she was handling potentially fatal plants on camera with very little care. She was rubbing her face up against some of them like it was a fuzzy little kitten and pretending she was going to eat one of them. Fucking stupid. {A rather ironic side note is that she was going on a tangent about people who change spiritual paths like they do underwear, yet one day she is a new age crystal healer, the next she is a necromancer and traditional witch, the next she is a chakra specialist, and now she is a folk magician with tonnes of experience working with “dark plants” and hoodoo.}
I suppose all I can add is that there is nothing wrong with being new at something, just admit that you are, know your limits and keep on learning. Besides, these are probably good tenets to go by for any worthy practitioner, whether they be neophyte or have ages of experiences.
So please folks, be careful who you buy these types of products from!
Below are some sources that I personally think are reputable:
If you know of any other reputable sources, please feel free to share them!
Sláinte!
Laurel
I have a certain love of the baneful, which actually makes this sort of thing horrifying to me. Rather like my feelings about guns, I like them but I don't want to be around people who are stupid with them. Sadly, these people usually don't end up hurting themselves, but others one way or another.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking Ms. Lawless, but I see she's already in your list! She's my favourite 'expert'. I've often thought about practising with baneful herbs myself, but the risk involved is just not worth it to me. ;D
ReplyDeleteSaigh: I think I am pretty much on the same page. I have a fondness/attraction to them {I think personally that some of them are sacred to one Mistress that we have in common!}, I am just not one to be working with them in that capacity. Same with guns. ;)
ReplyDeletePagan by Instinct: Yes, I think that she is often the first one folks think of!
There are other ways to have a relationship with baneful plants in general {I think that "baneful" ones seep beyond the boundaries of poison plants/entheogens} besides to just induce trance. Plants such as foxgloves and aconite are lovely garden plants. Datura and poppies are also great additions in the garden and their dried pods are great for charms. I also incorporate amanita muscaria into charms. They are very pretty even when dried. :)
I've an interest in the Poison Path but I am starting small - exploring with mandrake, but it is terrifying when people chuck together bits n pieces of banefuls and keep their fingers crossed. I tend to think that if people are going to try this sort of thing - do a Herbalism course first, learn how to interact and work with normal herbs first.
ReplyDeleteIf you jump headfirst into using banefuls you could end up dead. And to the wannabe badasses, if you're going to sell these items, list the ingredients, don't try and be mysterious because if some one has a reaction - your ass will get sued six ways from Sunday - yes you are liable for some one having a reaction to herbs - none of this "secret recipe" crap.
Sadly it is people like you Laurel that on serve to create a greater following for people like myself, badmouthing me where ever you can,believe anyone will listen you sadly perpetuated jelous dribble.
ReplyDeleteBefore you keep going on your childish tangent without ANY knowledge about me as a person and OR my personal life as a practitioner, I suggest you take your very own advice and " grow the fuck up"
Despite what people like YOU may think, I can hold my own, I am and have NEVER been here to crowd please the little critiques like you who find it empowering to publicy bash those you disagree with instead of having enough intellect to come straight to the source and speak.
A very cowardly trait I believe. I am FAR from perfect however your own level of self perpetuated knowledge and self importance is slightly amusing.
As far as I am concerned you a loud mouth, too much to say without much fact to substantiate your claim.
Simply as one does not practice your complete style or brand does not make them any less a practitioner, however I do noticed you seem quite closely follow everything I do ....
I must also apologize for my taking of the Fly Agaaric to my mouth in one of my most recent videos it would seen amongst other things you also need a sense of humor .......lighten up a bit and stop trying to win some form of petty witch war, because I truly do not care. Its a shame you spend so much time trying the take me down.
There seems between yourself and some minor friends you seem to believe you have a sense of entitlement to verbally insult those you do not agree.
I simply suggest to you,know a person and use factual evidence before proposing circumstantial evidence couples with personal bias and opinion before going on a little witch hunt simply because YOU do not agree.
OH, and I may just add as a side note your lack of evidential information I have nor to this day have sold my flying ointment to the public. Please make sure your evidence it plausible and does not border on defamation. If you have something to say you have my email, I suggest you use it as appose to creating silly half fledged and opinionated claims that border more on jealously rather that the debate of practice botanical use.
ReplyDeleteWell you are certainly rather defensive, aren't you Allison? For someone who is spewing all these fanciful thoughts about cowardly intentions, you should check yourself.
ReplyDeleteWhile by reading your own admittance, I would be apt to say that you probably shouldn't be selling these types of products either. That said, this post was inspired by someone else.
The little love note that I got from you makes more sense.
I do hope that you are finished making a complete ass of yourself on my blog now.
Actually various sources have come to me not only now but in the past telling me of your defamation.
ReplyDeleteWhether you like me or not is truly not my problem but own your words as there were far too many reaching out to warm me of your attack yet again and when this happened even via a passive aggressive mean when others can clearly see your words are meant toward me own it, or as it would seem it will be YOU that looks like as ass.
I have always been polite enough to you, however I find you attitude and self importance to tell others what you think curt.
Please be aware Laurel, as you well know if I truly wanted to be A,either offensive or B, defensive I would not be speaking so matter of factually. I do not condone the use of ANY baneful herbs as something to be toyed with ....but you should take the time perhaps to more sincerely research what it is you are looking to defame before perpetuating untruths, because that my dear only serves one to look like an ass.
Cowardly ? I do believe i am here speaking directly yo you, not making personal assumptions on my blog and perpetuating it as a higher knowledge. I have written write here what I wrote in your personal message. Acutally on EVERY occasion I have made contact with you ...if my memory serves me correctly it is you who insults and runs ....You make far too many judgements on others instead of simply using a little common sense and respect.
You need to stop judging others and see the beauty in all forms even if they are not yours.
We are not all bad people, only %80 of the time :P
Oh where to begin? At least you can always blame all this on the full moon I suppose. Anyhow…
ReplyDeleteThe only time I have had anything to say about you was when you were stealing images and artwork from others for your businesses. I came to you directly asking if you had permission to use those images and you said you did and when speaking to the original artists/photographers, I was told you did not have permission. So then I did some posts on Tumblr mentioning you specifically, warning folks to check and see if any of their photos or artworks were also stolen and were on those videos and websites.
My method of operation is straight forward. The person that this post was inspired by I have spoken to in private already, about a month before I posted this. They weren’t dealing with amanita, which while it does have a reputation, is a bit safer to fucked with in such a manner than the plants being handled by this person in their videos.
If you were the one I was talking about specifically in this post, I would have no qualms saying so. And you would know that this was about you as I would have talked you directly about this, as I did about you stealing from other people.
You are talking about me following you around and making assumptions with out finding the facts, you are sure one to talk. At one time I thought some of your content was pretty interesting, but after losing respect for you {stealing and lying tend to get that reaction from me} I haven’t been wasting my time.
If you see a resemblance of yourself in this post, then that is your problem. I am sure that there will be others who think this is about them directly as well. So if you are someone who is selling products with baneful herbs in them without having a clue about what you are doing, then this is about you too.
Take it or leave it.
If you have actual criticisms about the content of this post, then I welcome it. Brushing away what I feel are valid concerns with some tripe that I am just jealous of people, or that I am just taking digs because I "disagree" with them is not going to cut it.
Challenge the content. Challenge my arguments. Challenge my concerns.
Otherwise you are just airing your own delusions and will continue to be chasing your tail.
Actually my lovely, we HAD already spoken on numerous occasions via my use of Art works that were not mine.
ReplyDeleteUnlike your underhanded a unethical way to once again slap me in the face I will happily admit to doing this as I did you, ignorance is no excuse, and I quite agree should not have been done, but I am not sure why you are bringing this up as a way to embarrass me, it wont, I was wrong, I have no shame in admitting that and never did.
What I believe is shallow are curt tactics you are using to try an solidify your own bias to my rebuttal.
As you well know, I have always challenged you, however it seems no challenge meets your own self intelligence as you are never wrong. I may be FAR from perfect however I act like a cunt I will admit it.
Please do not speak of airing delusion when all you are pertetuating to do is air laundery that is older than my grandfathesr skiddy jocks LOL.
You gotta learn to take it or leave it, your a strong woman with a smart mind but sometimes you need to think a little more before you speak.
There need be no debate, I can happily and will admit my past wrong and goddess theres been a few, perhaps when you realize that not everyone must live up to your standard and just accept that people are people, let them be ( unless the may cause serious injury ). I am sure you are a beautiful person but strike me as someone who feels the need to correct others even when it is not your place.
As you well know via past conversations the world is full of enough anger and hate, I am not angry, nor do it hate , we can debate a fact and both perhaps learn something a little wiser from it.
I brought up the theft of other people's images to point out the one issue I had with you. You are coming on my blog making all these claims that we have some long list of interactions and history besides the few videos of yours I watched and the pms on Youtube about the thefts. I mentioned it to point out that before I go public with something such as “defamation” I do in fact “go straight to the source” to talk to the person involved. I mentioned it because I am owning the one thing that I have ever had to say about you, both in private and in public.
ReplyDeleteYou are claiming some falsified/fantasy interactions we had besides this topic, and the wee of bit of friendly banter up until I found out that you had lied to me about having permission to use those artworks. Then I just left it at that until I sent you one more message about you stealing someone else’s artwork. That’s it, that’s all. In fact I had to do some digging after I got that email from your this morning to refresh my memory about who you were, which led me to believe that you were bitching about the theft posts months after it was finished.
I am sorry to disappoint you that you are not my muse. Once you start cuddling up to some Belladonna or Aconite on video, let me know and I will make a post just for you. Until then be assured that my only notable beefs with you is that I think that you are a thief and a liar {and you are not winning any points by trying now to claim that you didn’t know any better about using other people’s work; that is a claim that can only be made once and if you are warned on multiple occasions, that claim is pretty much useless}.
Anyhow, if you actually have something worth while to add to this topic, then feel free to do so. If not, please feel free to bring your personal issues elsewhere.
Thanks,
Laurel
If there is one thing I hate it is seeing supposed "witches" profess they are better than others .... I have been a follower of your blog Laurel for some time but now I shake my head. What gives you the right to sit and judge someone who has a very strong reputation in the community and is also very well liked. Seems like your on a jelous rant looking to hate on someone who has more respect than you. everyone makes mistakes looks like your trying desperatly to use it to make someone who is so well liked look bad,very fucking shameful,havent you worked in the sex industry yet your gonna judge someone for using a couple of pictures like they have stolen a BMW ...how dare you !
ReplyDeleteAllison, since I like it when things come in threes, I am giving you your third and final warning. If you have some actual critique about my position on the sale of these types of products, or even my position on ironic frauds, have at it. Otherwise you are not welcome here. Pretending to be someone else doesn’t get you anymore chances either.
ReplyDeleteAt this point I really don’t care what you delude yourself into thinking and I am quite weary of your temper tantrum. I have been very clear on my positions, so if you can’t handle it and stick to the topic, then take your pity party elsewhere and cry about how I am such a big meanie.
I didn't think you were talking about Allison (the Chakra Specialist made me think it must be some one else) but it is a shame that everyone is getting so riled up. Blogs are opinions, sometimes you will agree with some, other times not. But at the end of the day, personal blogs are personal blogs - you can say whatever you want really.
ReplyDeleteYou say in one of your replies that the person was rubbing nightshade and aconite on themselves - how ridiculously stupid can one person be? That's just asking to find yourself poisoned or dead. I'm sorry that relations between you both have become untenable but hopefully it works itself out in the end.
Two women of fire always makes for good reading :) I hold no ill will, it takes more than that to get me that angry.
ReplyDeleteAlthough if anything relating to the topic at hand above, I have noticed an increase in practitioners toying with baneful herbs, I have had to make a bed away from the house as I have a pug who sees fit to eat EVERYTHING my garden grows! little grub !!
I think the problem falls within practitioners quite simply following the likes of other more well known practitioners and hoping for the best. I have made ointments now 4 times but keep changing them. I have not sold one lol.
I think internet in itself can play a big part on the misinformation manage to dig up of forums and use without knowing what they are doing.
It does frighten me somewhat to see so many young practitioners looking for these ointments not to induce a sense magickal aid but the simply get high....
The Country Witch: This person has been opening and closing channels on YouTube left and right. I have been trying to get a copy of the video for this post, but every time someone finds it, it is flagged down or she just removes it then shuts her channel down. The latest incarnation was a "Shaman-Shinto-Hoodoo-Druid". She has been chased off of Ebay and it looks like her Etsy shop has been closed too. Besides flying ointments she was selling those spells to make your boobs bigger, and for the gents a penis enlargement spell.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, she was rubbing and snuggling up with deadly nightshade and monkshood and pretending that she was going to eat one of them. Both looked fresh and of course she was handling them with no gloves either.
Allison: I think that is at least a part of the rise for sure. No doubt many of us have been inspired by more experienced practitioners who have been awesome enough to put themselves out there and share their knowledge. It's one of those things that is kinda like a double-edged sword.
It is great that more folks are looking to history for their practice and that it is now more acceptable to be something else besides all love and light. Again, a double-edged sword. We are more free to explore, but we are also more at risk.
Hopefully it will all balance out if folks promote responsible practices.